Curse

stuh505 · Dec 01, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Before you make assumptions ask some people who have played axe warriors. If you have played it and never hit more than 31 then that is just pathetic. Also 16 axe mastery with eviscerate I have hit for 130 with a crit. With your calculations that is impossible.

I have never done PvP with a warrior, and I am only talking about dmg vs a level 20 player with 60 AL...so your damages vs monsters or with other effects on don't count.

In those calculations I definitely goofed up by averaging the additional damage instead of taking the maximum...I was reading it like a Diablo skill lol.

Here is the corrected result:

28 weapon damage
eviscerate +34 damage
20% enhanced damage
target AL = 60
target level = 60
AP from strength = 16%
Damage = 48
(Critical hit = 54)

stuh505 · Dec 01, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

IW DPS is easy to calculate.
Conjure Phantasm = 10 DPS
IW = 1.333 * 42 DPS assuming 1 hit/second base
Total DPS = 66

Tell me what skills an optimal warrior would be using and I will calculate the DPS of the warrior

Ensign · Dec 01, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuh505

*drool* oh hay look guys I can pull numbers out of my ass! *drool*

Average "normal" axe attack vs. 60 AL: (6+28)/2 * 1.2 (customization) * 1.15 (weapon inherent mod) * 1.149 (extra damage for 16 axe) = 26.95 damage per hit
Critical axe attack vs. 60 AL: 28 * sqrt(2) * 1.2 (customization) * 1.15 (weapon inherent mod) * 1.149 (extra damage for 16 axe) = 62.77 damage per hit

Overall average axe attack: 26.95 * .76 (chance of non-critical) + 62.77 * .24 (chance of critical) = 35.55 damage per attack

(assuming they don't give you free shots at their back, which auto-critical)

Average Eviscerate / Executioner's Strike @ 10 Strength: 81.45 damage per hit
Critical Eviscerate / Executioner's Strike @ 10 Strength: 111.65 damage per hit

Have a nice day.

Peace,
-CxE

entropy · Dec 01, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

If eviscerate were to crit at 111.65 how does anyone hit for above that amount? Just wondering

TokranePo · Dec 01, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Those who say that IW is pointless apparently haven't used it before. IW is an excellent and very inventive build. Sure it has counters, but it is still rare enough that most people don't use it.

As for flurry, it is an excellent compliment, but Distortion works much better. I was using Flurry myself until a better player schooled me. You can switch them off, but if you are being attacked Distortion allows you to live 3x longer as opposed to doing only 1/3 more damage. Distortion has the better payoff when you are under fire.

That's not even my idea, like I said, someone else showed me a better way.

Illusion of Weakness is TERRIBLY effective and any Mesmer in an IW build who doesn't use it is being foolish IMO. The beautiful thing about IW is that it allows you to focus on Illusory magic and it doesn't require many skill slots to be effective. There is no reason not to use IoW and its benefits for a low health character [mesmer] are too key for your survival to pass up.

*Disclaimer: the above statements are an opinion and as such are only as important or noteworthy as anyone else's opinion

stuh505 · Dec 02, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Ensign,

My calculations were shown and I used the equation in the Guild Wars Damage calculator. Obviously they weren't pulled out of my ass, and I never even claimed they were correct..I invited people to correct me because I was not confident -- your insults are unwarranted.

jesh · Dec 02, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

If eviscerate were to crit at 111.65 how does anyone hit for above that amount? Just wondering

I'd like to know that too, I've heard of ridiculously large amounts of damage with Eviscerate, like 210-230.. maybe they're counting the deep wound? Of course buffs always help..

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokranePo

As for flurry, it is an excellent compliment, but Distortion works much better. I was using Flurry myself until a better player schooled me. You can switch them off, but if you are being attacked Distortion allows you to live 3x longer as opposed to doing only 1/3 more damage. Distortion has the better payoff when you are under fire.

Try tossing on Spirit of Failure too, it's a lot nicer than just Distortion by itself. Then add a conjure phantasm/PP on top to cover it and have fun with the energy battery.

Dmitri3 · Dec 02, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I'd like to know that too, I've heard of ridiculously large amounts of damage with Eviscerate, like 210-230.. maybe they're counting the deep wound? Of course buffs always help.

It depends on the enemy, these calculations were made for 60 armor. What if the enemy had armor around 30?
Thus there are alot of things that can modify physical damage...

Also, warriors are easily countered, IW is alot harder to counter... considering it's a smart player.

FrogDevourer · Dec 02, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuh505

IW DPS is easy to calculate.
Conjure Phantasm = 10 DPS

That's an original way to compute the damage output from IW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokranePo

Those who say that IW is pointless apparently haven't used it before. IW is an excellent and very inventive build. Sure it has counters, but it is still rare enough that most people don't use it.

That's assuredly a funny statement. You do realize most of us have been playing with and against IW for months, don't you? You can spot an IW/BlackOut mesmer so easily it's not even funny. If you're his target, you can kite 80% of his damage effortlessly, and if you're a necromancer, you'll be laughing your ass off each time you rend all his enchantments (not to mention the standard Shadow of Fear to divide his damage by 2). The ability to bypass warrior armors is totally irrelevant (you can kill them faster with better spells), unless you think dueling a w/mo is interesting.

Don't take me wrong, IW is a decent build for random arena (read: against poor opponents), but it's neither good nor robust enough for better PvP environments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokranePo

Distortion has the better payoff when you are under fire.

Just curious, what do you do when all your energy has been drained by Distorsion? 5e every 5s (equivalent to -3 pips of energy) + 1e/hit (which means -2 energy pips per warrior attacking you). If by 'under fire' you mean there are 2/3 opponents targetting you, you'll lose all your energy in less than 10s.

TheCrimsonBlur · Dec 02, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuh505

Ensign,

My calculations were shown and I used the equation in the Guild Wars Damage calculator. Obviously they weren't pulled out of my ass, and I never even claimed they were correct..I invited people to correct me because I was not confident -- your insults are unwarranted.

Nope, they REALLY were pulled out of your ass. The damage calculator is wrong and that post just shows how much you do not know about the machanics of this game. And, if you dont think that we are right with our calculations, run an Eviscerate warrior. You will see that he does quite a bit more than your calculations.

IW is a novelty build. It is fun to run in random arenas when you are bored but it is not something someone can actually use in high end PvP. No matter how much you own in random arenas, step into GvG with that build (against competent opponents) and you will get raped.

The best part about IW is that it is a very quick faction farm. The DPS is nice (most warriors have better tho...Battle Rage warriors, Eviscerate warriors, etc. will do nearly double the damage of any IW mesmer) and is easy to run and set up.

Has anyone tested this with a ranger using Determined Shot? Since all your attacks miss will IW, wouldnt all skills be recharged? Sounds like a better version of Oath Shot to me (to bad it only affects attack skills) for random arenas. Energizing Winds might be very useful in that combo too...I will try this today.

stuh505 · Dec 03, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuh505
IW DPS is easy to calculate.
Conjure Phantasm = 10 DPS

That's an original way to compute the damage output from IW.

Conjure Phantasm has 5 pips of degen, and each pip does 2 DPS. 2*5 = 10. Is that too much math for you? IW warrior would be using Conjure Phantasm + Illusionary Weaponry at the same time so you have to add the two numbers together...I guess that was too much math for you because you seemed to miss that (next) line in the calc.

Quote:

Nope, they REALLY were pulled out of your ass. The damage calculator is wrong and that post just shows how much you do not know about the machanics of this game.

I get it, the Damage Calculator linked to by this website is located in my ass. Gotcha. If I was confident in the numbers, I wouldn't be posting them here asking for people to correct me, would I? I obviously do not know the mechanics of the game, that's why I am here asking for help. I think I've had just about enough "non-help" from you.

Quote:

Has anyone tested this with a ranger using Determined Shot? Since all your attacks miss will IW, wouldnt all skills be recharged?

Well Determined Shot is a bow attack

stuh505 · Dec 03, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

1. what does 'kite' mean? must have been mentioned 3 times now...

2.

Quote:

You can switch them off, but if you are being attacked Distortion allows you to live 3x longer as opposed to doing only 1/3 more damage. Distortion has the better payoff when you are under fire.

yeah, i agree they are both good to have, but its more significant than simply 1/3 more damage...because if you're doing dmg 1/3 times faster, that means their healing is also 1/3 times less, so it could effectively allow you to make the same life loss as if you were doing a lot more than 1/3 more

3.

Quote:

by Distorsion? 5e every 5s (equivalent to -3 pips of energy)

also you lose 1 e every time you are hit...but still i havent really had too much of a prob with keeping it up

Savio · Dec 03, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

IW DPS is easy to calculate.
Conjure Phantasm = 10 DPS
IW = 1.333 * 42 DPS assuming 1 hit/second base
Total DPS = 66

Assuming you used Flurry or any of the IAS skills, you'd be hitting once a second. (Base attack speed for sword/axe is 1 hit/1.33 seconds.) You're also forgetting to take into account the time you take to cast Conjure Phantasm, which would be about once every 15 seconds at 16 Illusion. That's another 1.75 seconds every recast.

If you want a better analysis by Ensign about axe skills (although Cleave is slightly higher now),
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=49874
But you don't do axe for DPS. You do it for spiking.

Kiting: moving around to avoid attacks. Good casters would know how to do this.

My main question is, what damage calculator are you using?

TokranePo · Dec 03, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

That's an original way to compute the damage output from IW.
That's assuredly a funny statement. You do realize most of us have been playing with and against IW for months, don't you? You can spot an IW/BlackOut mesmer so easily it's not even funny. If you're his target, you can kite 80% of his damage effortlessly, and if you're a necromancer, you'll be laughing your ass off each time you rend all his enchantments (not to mention the standard Shadow of Fear to divide his damage by 2). The ability to bypass warrior armors is totally irrelevant (you can kill them faster with better spells), unless you think dueling a w/mo is interesting.

Don't take me wrong, IW is a decent build for random arena (read: against poor opponents), but it's neither good nor robust enough for better PvP environments.
Just curious, what do you do when all your energy has been drained by Distorsion? 5e every 5s (equivalent to -3 pips of energy) + 1e/hit (which means -2 energy pips per warrior attacking you). If by 'under fire' you mean there are 2/3 opponents targetting you, you'll lose all your energy in less than 10s.

All I heard was "I'm better than you! Agree with me!!!!! MEH!"
:P

As far as distortion goes, it keeps the mesmer alive effectively when under fire, which is why I said it is the better spell to have. However, as an IW Mesmer, the object is not to be under fire, so I wouldn't say that my energy is going to disappear quickly at all.

IW is fun. But I am no l337 pvp guru, that's certainly true. So, I believe you when you say you're right. But, then, I also believe that there is more than one way to play the game, which is something a.net is making increasingly untrue.